Battlelines drawn on affordable public housing

The reason why I would prefer to vote for the opposition are simple.

I personally feels that the PAP has done a fantastic job for Singapore when they came into power as an opposition....why did the ruling party at that time fail and PAP won? Same scenario now as the ruling party of today say they understand the situation of the people but asking the common folks to bite the bullet while they serve millions to themselves buffet style.

I remember the NKF saga not about the gold tap but the PEANUTS remarks. That reminds me of why Mr Mah says that HDB is affordable to the common folks of Singaporeans. But equally important is our beloved Mr Goh Chok Tong's remarks that say IGNORE THE NOISE, which happens to be our displeasure with one of their new candidates Ms whoever.....I dont even care to register her name.....

If a simple displeasure from the general public is considered as NOISE, what about my future generations in terms of looking at a bigger picture?

My generations ( I'm now 43) has given PAP a very generous headstart of 40yrs in building a nation. I remember my parents paid for their 4 room flat for about $8000 and settled their liabilites in 5 yrs.
Now I'm struggling to settle my affordable 4 room hdb flat that needs 30 yrs. The best part is we will not know what will happen in the future and I owed 2 months to HDB to date. The HDB personnel told me I could sell off my flat to repay the outstanding. I will have some money left and wont be burden to pay off monthly HDB debts. That's their way of settling my debts to them, But when I ask them where could I stay with my wife and 2 children if I sell off my flat, they told me that is for me to solve as that is not within their perimeter to help. Luckily, my mom and in laws help me to settle part of, and I'm now trying to look for other jobs to settle my problems.

Now comes the G.E. Luckily for the PAP's, they didn't knock on my door and ask for my vote, otherwise, I would borrow my PM Lee statement, GO FLY A KITE !

To summarise all, PAP's mentality is anything above $100 thousand is nothing but peanuts, thus hdb housing are affordable.

Singaporean displeasure are noise...we dont know much but the PAP knows what's best for me.

Pm Lee once stated in the STRAITS TIMES that he dont understand why we are complaining over the HDB issue, saying a Family can afford a 3 room flat even if only 1 member in the family is earning $1200 a month.

Wow, if PM thinks like that, I believe I know who to vote for.

Extract from Online Citizen.....

I refer to Mr Mah Bow Tan’s rebuttal to WP’s proposal on pegging HDB prices to median salaries.

Let me preface my comment by saying that I have been an ardent supporter of PAP policies over the years, and I think they have done an exceptional job. However, for this particular issue, it appears that WP’s position is more intellectually pure than the PAP’s.

Indeed, Mr Mah’s response appears to be missing the woods for the trees. At the end of the day, we need to go back to basics – to what the fundamental mission of HDB is, and it is to provide affordable housing for the masses.

To determine the affordability of a house, we need to look at price vs salary. From this measure, HDB prices have become a lot more expensive over the years. For instance, in 1986, the starting salary of a graduate was about $1,400 per month (approximately), and a 4-room HDB flat cost around $65,000, resulting in a price to monthly salary ratio of about 46 times. Today, the average starting salary of a graduate is about $3,000 (generous estimate), and a 4-room HDB flat costs anywhere from $240k to about $572k (for the Peak @ Toa Payoh). This translates to a ratio of between 80 times to 190 times.

Hence, from an affordability perspective, HDB flats today are about 1.7 to 4.1 times more expensive than in 1986.

This has resulted in many people having to stretch out their mortgage payments to 30 years (even in one of the lowest interest rate environments in history) in order to keep mortgage payments at an affordable level. Prudent financial planning guidelines typically advise that if you have to stretch out mortgage payments to 30 years in order to afford the monthly payments, you are probably buying a house that you can ill-afford.

PAP’s primary argument is that the subsidy is in the discount to market pricing. Well, the problem with this is that market prices are not linked to salaries (as market prices are also heavily influenced by offshore liquidity and general investor sentiment). Over the last 10 years, we have all seen the market go astray, in various asset classes and in various geographies. Hence, without a fundamental link to salaries, it is difficult to ensure that HDB flats will remain affordable (in fact, given the above examples, it is arguable that they currently are).

In his rebuttal, Mr Mah’s principal point is that lowering the primary market prices would lower resale market prices. This response appears to be populist and scare-mongering in nature, and skirts around addressing the fundamental issue. Is it important that resale prices are maintained? As a flat owner, I would say ‘Yes’. However, is it more central to the mission of HDB than providing affordable housing to the masses? Well, clearly no.

Beside, the link between primary property prices and resale market prices is a tenuous one, at best. The resale market is driven by supply and demand. If HDB is able to flood the market with cheap flats, then yes, resale market prices will collapse. But as long as the demand tension dynamics remain unchanged, the resale market prices should still hold, regardless of where the primary market flats are priced.

Mr Mah’s other point regarding home buyers switching to new homes instead of resale flats is again, a peripheral point that can easily be addressed via policy levers (first time owner priority etc).

Finally, his point on this being an illegal raid on the reserves is irrelevant and unnecessarily confuses the issue. The government makes spending decisions every day on policies which are in line with its policy goals. If affordable housing is a policy goal, then such subsidy is a necessary means to achieve the
goal.

In summary, as a long-time PAP supporter, it is somewhat disappointing that Mr Mah has chosen to skirt the issue and serve up populist appeals with scare-mongering tactics, rather than to seriously address a serious issue for thinking voters.

Dear fellow Singaporeans who're residents of Tampines, I don't mind kneeling down on my knees to kowtow and beg you for this, and I'm not ashamed to seek this request from you to vote wisely this time. If MBT continues to be in power, it'll be another 5 more years at least of hell for home-seekers like many of us here. We also don't wish for our children to suffer paying decades of housing debts, be it prudent financial planning or no. This GE2011 is the only chance we've got to right the wrong and address our grievances. While you help us, for my part I'll be helping to vote out the MIW team at Aljunied too. We need to help one another for the collective good of all Singaporeans who have suffered long enough.

My sincere heartfelt thanks to each and everyone of you here. Thank you!

I've just got the key to my new HDB flat in Yishun. I've come to realize that I should treasure this flat and not to have thoughts of selling it either for capital gains as I will still need a roof above. Hence I don't understand why PAP kept saying about the benefits of rising house prices. It will only benefit me if I'm leaving Singapore for good and settle somewhere else. As long as I need a house to stay in Singapore, I will not be able to gain from the increase.

so what do you think pap want to make hdb so expensive?

Temasek Holdings owned HDB and is controlling HDB KPIs!!!

How to maintance the million dollars salaries of pappies?

TIME OUT for pappies on 07.05.2011, vote them out.

MBT, please stop using vague terms like "affordable", "good quality" and "may crash the market". Go join the queue to apply for a HDB flat and then live in one to fully understand the issues!

Dear PAP,

Must the Citizen drive you out of parliament and you become the opposition then you will start to listen to Singaporeans? Most of us do not want to hear your twisted justification, we want remedy actions and if you still keep arguing and going ahead with your deadly policies, we will have no choice but to cast our votes to the oppositions.

Your's Truly,
Ex-PAP supporter

Ma Bow Tan . up to this minute you are still using the word affordable. Which incidently is
confusing to all of us.Why don't you simply say, affordable means $500,000 for a 3 room
flats. This will solve the mistry in the word affordable.
And this will clear all doubts the voters have.
All the Voters OF Tampines can vote you out without feel guilty.
The voters of potong pasir kicked you out cause they had the foresight to know that you are
a trouble maker.
Therefore the voters of Tampines are going to double comfirm to kick you
out for good and never to return again
Ma Bo Tan please follow the good example of you buddy Steve Tan and quit before we KICK you OUT

FIRST PAP HAVE TO GIVE UP THEIR MILLION DOLLAR SALARY. PM Lee salary plus his 3 months bonus is $12 million. The same amount can employ 50 ministers in a developed country like Australia !

My question is PAP serving Singaporeans or serving their pockets and their own gang and family members.

By the way, MM Lee is retired and is getting the same salary as his son, while our Old grandfather and grandmother is selling tissue and cleaning tables ? Is the Lee talking about first world Singapore about their life or Singaporeans ?

Also, Goh Chok Tong is getting the same salary like the Lees, No wonder Singaporeans are their salves !!

Finally, stop giving excuse and tell Singaporeans the truth !! WE WILL BE RESERVING THE 9 NMP SPACE FOR THE PAP. THEY CAN BARK IN PARLIAMENT BUT HAS NO TOOTH !

PAP can then tell us if it is an effective alternative in parliament !!

My two sons at home need help in building LEGO houses.

Think I may offer that guy Mah the job if he is interested.

Same and hope to see Mah Bow Tan go for giving us so much problems. Hopefully Tamines GRC Residents all vote for Opposition to give Mah Bow Tan a lesson

Dear Mr. Mah BT, Let’s talk about your Asset Enhancement!!!
In my estate (Serangoon Ave 2), a 25 years old 3 room flat was transacted at $400,000. That is abt MR920, 000. One can buy a big free hold bungalow in any part of Malaysia. That is to say the value of our 99 years 3 room flat = a new Free hold Malaysia bungalow!
If my 4 room flat is not worth more will worth the same in the open market right? So this is Asset Enhancement!
I am a manager. My pay is $4000 plus. My family of 4 lives in a 4 room HDB flat. Our living space is abt 1100 sq/ft. I bought a 2 years old Japanese car.
My Malaysia worker takes home $1300 excluding OT. His family of 5 lives in a free hold double storey Terrance house of about 2300 sq/ft near Senai. He bought the house for MR110, 000 that is about $47,000. He has a motor cycle and a car. He drives his new Honda Civil to work during weekends bcos there is no $20 charge.
IS THE QUALITY OF LIFE OF THE S’POREAN MANAGER COMPARABLE TO THAT OF THE MALAYSIAN WORKER??
You talk abt Asset Enhancement! Can we sell our asset enhanced flat? Why we have to park so much of our hard earn money in a flat? Does your Asst Enhancement make sense? I rather live in a MR110, 000 ($47,000) flat and park my money somewhere else!!!

Please resident of Tampines GRC help us.
All the anger vented here will come to nought if Mah Bow Tan is not voted out.

Back to MBT.
Just how much do you think it is affordable? Fix a stardard so that the goal pole would not move from land to sky.

I feel WP's housing proposal is feasible because:

(a) It makes HDB public housings more afforable to our young Singaporeans;
(b) Less financial burdens (loans) to young Singaporeans;
(c) It eliminates one of the biggest obstacles of young Singaporeans getting married late;
(d) It also helps to boost brith rate;
(e) Singaporeans are less stress out and can concentrate to improve our economy;
(f) Less FT needed;
(g) Resulting in less packed public transports
(h) HDB public housing more affordable dur to less FT

Though price of new HDB public housing does not some impacts on its resales market but it is not be as substantiate as PAP Ministers claimed. Because new HDB public housings are open only to Singaporean Citizens and only allow to sell after 5 years.

For the benefit of our young generation, please vote wisely!!!

Just talk to any man-in-the street and they lament the same thing : " I don't think our children can afford a flat in the future."

This is what we are facing.

Why are Sporeans & PR placed in the same cetegory where resale flats are concern , aren;t pr foriegners . no to prs buying public housing that is rightfully the legal right of Sporean only . SPOREANS NOT ALLOWED TO BUY PUBLIC HOUSING IN ANY OTHER COUNTRY

this PAP very funny. they say our HDB flats are assets. they think we are like them . . has a house to live and a few more properties for rent or sale. hello, i don't make millions like you, ok?!

i don't know about other netizens, but if i sell my flat, i will end up sleeping in parks lor. so, how can it be an asset when i can't touch it at all?

Whatever PAP promise in the next 6 days will all be forgotten or some lame excuses explain away the non-fulfillment.

Singaporeans must not be hoodwinked again like PAP did after the 2006 GE.
Once PAP retained total power, nothing can stop them from doing what they want.
Please remember the lessons learned. Do not fall into PAP traps.

The best & most effective solution is to vote out MBT & to elect into parliament more opposition MPs who can speak & fight for the interests of us singaporeans.

This is the only solution now. No else can bring the PAP to truly serve singapore & singaporeans.

3 room flats in Singapore ... they cost what? $250k up? Rent for 99 years?

Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia and any other ASEAN countries ... for same floor area, cost $60k up, live in home forever and hand your property down to your children, then to grandchildren and to future great grandchildren as long as you hold the title deeds.

These are the facts to argue the point.

Vote wisely for short term happiness and false sense of security or have foresight for our future generations.