Show Us The Money: Teamsters Chief Negotiator Lindsay Dougherty On Why Studios Need To Pay Up, Taylor Sheridan & Respect

Katie Campione
·16-min read

With IATSE’s deal still up in the air, Teamsters Local 399 is taking up the mantle Monday to negotiate on a new three-year contract with the studios.

On behalf of her members, Teamsters Local 399 chief Lindsay Dougherty is ready to drive a hard bargain with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers. Doughtery tells Deadline she’s expecting the same in return.

More from Deadline

“I think in this contract cycle, they’re going to bargain hard,” she said in an interview ahead of Monday’s negotiations. “There is some element of chess playing in negotiations, but I think, at the end of the day, we just have to keep fighting for what our members deserve until we get it.”

In addition to serving as chief negotiator for these talks, Dougherty is also the Teamsters Motion Picture Division director and Western Region Vice President as well as Chairperson of the Hollywood Basic Crafts. She has already sat across the table from the Carol Lombardini-led AMPTP during this bargaining cycle, since the Basic Crafts linked arms with IATSE to negotiate the terms of their joint benefits beginning in May.

So far, the details on those proposals are not drilled down. As Deadline understands it, pension contributions have already arisen as a sticking point between the unions and the studios, as the unions are seeking the replenish the funds with more significant increases than in the past. Overall, the pension fund has underperformed in recent years, due a variety of factors including market forces. The fund, which employers pay into, has seen a significant withdrawals over the last several years as many below-the-line crew have been unemployed for extended periods of time during pandemic shutdowns and last year’s historic dual strikes.

That’s just one of several priorities for Dougherty, who tells Deadline “the underlying theme of most of our proposals is respect.”

“We just want our members to get their fair share for the work that they do and, really, our proposals are extremely reasonable and extremely realistic, because, again, these are things that the studios and the streamers have already agreed to with many other unions,” she said.

In the interview below, Dougherty details some of the Teamsters’ priorities for a new three-year deal and explains how she’s juggling the sentiments of members, who have been through a tough couple of years. She also takes aim at powerful producers for whom she says the “rules” don’t apply.

DEADLINE: Let’s talk through some of your priorities during this bargaining cycle. Of course, benefits are a big one.

LINDSAY DOUGHERTY: The priorities for our members are always pension and health. That’s part of being under a collective bargaining agreement is having a Cadillac healthcare plan. So obviously, that’s important to preserve that. And then secondly, pension contributions. One of the biggest complaints that we’ve had from our members in the past when they retire is that their pension is just not enough to live off of, especially in a state like California, which is more expensive than most states. So that is something that we’ve looked at. [We’ve] looked at other Taft Hartley plans, other pension plans, and we’ve seen that, it’s simply not up to our standards, or Teamster standards. So that’s one of our big issues as well.

DEADLINE: You’ve already begun discussing benefits with the AMPTP, jointly with the other unions. Do you feel like progress is being made? Has it helped to have the other unions there as well?

DOUGHERTY: I think so. I think it’ll even improve as years pass, because we obviously haven’t done this before. The last time that we’ve truly bargained alongside them is in 1988. All of us have members that participate, or are participants in the Pension and Health Fund, so we all have the same priorities in terms of our members working in the same industry. So that’s something that I think will grow and even get stronger throughout the years, but it has been definitely helpful, because historically, we just haven’t been part of that conversation.

DEADLINE: What about wage increases? This is already becoming a hot-button issue with IATSE. What are you looking for on that front?

DOUGHERTY: Even the last contract cycle, we started bargaining in late 2021 and concluded negotiations early in 2022 and that was during the height of inflation. We had issues with accepting 3% in the first year that cycle, and obviously there’s other improvements we made to the contract, and that was a contract that was overwhelmingly ratified. However, we’re in a period of time now where our members still endured inflation, more than just one year, and then endured a dual strike, where they did not have any income during that time. We still have some members that are recovering from the pandemic in 2020, because obviously there was time where they weren’t working during the pandemic. With the cost of living in California, and looking at what some of the other unions have gotten — like SAG-AFTRA getting a 7% increase — and all these years we’ve been subjected to this pattern bargaining from the AMPTP, and so our members are expecting at least 7%, because they can’t have it both ways. We look at other contracts that we have and other industries out there, and we have a commercial agreement, and those wages are towards 21% more than the wages in the Black Book agreement that we have for the majority of our members, which are the drivers. So these are obviously things that we’re all looking at and then basing our proposals off that these facts.

DEADLINE: I can only imagine that the studios could say the same thing, that it’s been a tough few years and they’re recovering from a dual strike as well. What is your response to something like that?

DOUGHERTY: Well, even throughout time, we’ve seen these major studios haven’t been as profitable as they are now. You see the bounce back from COVID, obviously, that was the height of the streaming bubble. I think to some degree, there was an expectation that the work would come back, similar to post COVID numbers. If you’re following the industry, or the pattern of the industry…it’s unrealistic to think that it would be that busy. But also, I think most people don’t know, especially if you’ve just started out in an industry where it’s been busy for the last 10 years, and that’s primarily because of the film and television tax credit that we have in the state of California, because even post-writers strike of ’07-08, the industry did not bounce back immediately to what we had seen prior to that. That was a time where California didn’t have a film and television tax credits, and there was other states like Georgia and Louisiana that were capturing work post-writers strike back then.

Now we’re seeing people realizing that, with the film and television tax credits worldwide, we’re not only having to be competitive with other states, but we have to be competitive worldwide. That’s just a different game. I mean, back in the 1990s, Canada had their tax credit, but now you have over 40 countries that have tax credits. This is not something that just started in 2023 or 2024. This has been ongoing. It’s not predictable, our industry, but obviously we’re seeing extremes where people just want some normalcy, which I think we’ll see next year. But at the same time, we’re not willing to take less because of the state of the industry at this moment, like we have been. We have taken concessions years ago when the studios weren’t doing so well. We haven’t been doing that for many years, but also, [we have not been] not getting what we need for our members in the last several contract cycles, which, even if you set aside the dual strikes from last year, some of these issues, would still remain, because these were issues that we had years ago, before the strikes happened last year. Some of these are proposals that we’ve been asking for years, and then some of these proposals are improvements that the studios have made, most recently, to other unions — whether they’re Teamsters or other unions throughout the country — but they have made these improvements to these other workers, which we’re asking, ‘Well, why aren’t you giving our members these improvements?’ It’s Hollywood. It’s the epicenter of motion picture making. Why wouldn’t you want to reward the people that not only work day in, day out, but generations of workers at this point?

DEADLINE: As I mentioned, IATSE is already struggling with the wage increase proposals. How are you feeling knowing before you even step in the room that this is probably going to be a pain point?

DOUGHERTY: Well, look, I think that the studios are expecting us to want at least 7%, but I don’t expect the studios to just give it to us willingly. They don’t do anything out of the kindness of their hearts. I think in this contract cycle, they’re going to bargain hard. They obviously have more eyes on them from people at the companies, whether it’s the CEOs or production executives, but they have people to answer to. The expiration of all of our agreements are July 31. I don’t anticipate they’re going to be making these great strides and counter proposals and giving us what we want right now. I mean, there is some element of chess playing in negotiations, but I think, at the end of the day, we just have to keep fighting for what our members deserve until we get it.

DEADLINE: What about streaming, particularly when it comes to residuals. What are the priorities there?

DOUGHERTY: Well, with streaming, there’s a few issues that many of the unions and guilds have had historically, and that’s agreeing to terms and conditions during the time in which streaming was brand new and making what would be considered concessions to their agreement. Because when there’s a technological change in industry, it’s deemed as being brand new — and this is the company’s perspective, that they need breaks and wages or benefits or whatever it might be, because this is very new and unpredictable way of doing business, which they don’t know if it’s going to be successful. Well, now we’re in a different time where we have seen the success. We have seen that streaming is the future and cord cutting is most definitely happening, and basic cable will be obsolete pretty soon. So these concessions that were made, now the unions are trying to claw back. Luckily for the Teamsters, we never really agreed to those terms and conditions…whether it’s compensation and wages or overtime provisions or those things that are considered working conditions.

So we, I believe, have a pretty good handle on it, but we just agreed to streaming in our last contract negotiations. So we’re not trying to necessarily claw back things that we agreed to in the early 2000s, but I will say with residuals, that is most definitely a huge priority, because that is how our pension and health fund is partly funded, is through this residual stream. Obviously, streaming is the future, as I mentioned, and there are streaming residuals that we just don’t have defined in our contracts. We’re not getting the funds from that, and we need that. We need that during times that there may not be as many contribution hours going into the fund. But we most definitely need to capture these residuals, because we’re losing the other residuals that are obsolete that concern traditional media.

DEADLINE: From a process standpoint, the residuals pay into the pension fund, as you said. But when it comes to the structure of the residual payments, could it look similar to what the other unions achieved last year?

DOUGHERTY: It could be similar, but it’s going to also be different, because for SAG-AFTRA, DGA and WGA, those residuals are paid to the individual workers as a form of compensation. For us, as the Teamsters, Hollywood Basic Crafts, IATSE, it’s paid into our pension and health funds. You could look at it in a similar way of that, it is a form of compensation for our members, because they get a pension benefit out of the MPIPHP funds. So it doesn’t really matter. It’s money from the success of the product that these companies not only are able to produce and make a profit, but they’re able to sell it over and over and over again and still continue to make additional profits. So we want a share of that profit, just as we have had historically since the 1960s, which, you don’t see most industries doing that. They sell a product, and that’s it. They make the profit. They don’t continue to reuse it. So that’s where it is similar. But I will say, some of these residuals that we’re trying to capture in this round of bargaining, the other unions and guilds have captured years ago, and so we’re asking for the same thing that we’ve asked before, and now we’re looking to really get these locked in in these negotiations.

DEADLINE: I assume AI will also be part of the conversation?

DOUGHERTY: Oh yeah. I think artificial intelligence for any workforce in any industry should be a concern, and it should be a discussion and negotiated in collective bargaining. So the studios know that we will be making a proposal. I don’t think there’s any thought in their mind that we wouldn’t be, especially for Teamsters, we talk about autonomous vehicles daily. And this is not just statewide, it’s throughout the United States…this is a concern for a lot of our members that are truck drivers. In our bargaining unit for this cycle, we have over 3,000 drivers, so we want to know what these companies plan on doing with our members’ jobs, whether it’s having them utilize artificial intelligence as a tool, or if they plan on displacing our members. We most definitely want to be able to negotiate that and have a conversation, and not just have them be able to do whatever they want, which obviously, that is most definitely the perspective from these companies.

DEADLINE: I want to dial in a bit further on production leaving the U.S. This is a huge concern for many below-the-line folks. How much of that is something you can and plan to address in bargaining, versus looking to legislation to help in the form of tax credits and other incentives to keep production in the U.S.?

DOUGHERTY: Well, look, I think that in terms of productions leaving Hollywood, runaway productions, we this has been part of our discussion as Teamsters since the 1990s, as I mentioned before. During that time, in bargaining, because productions were going to Canada during those bargaining cycles in the 90s, the unions made concessions in order to keep work in Los Angeles. That means lesser wages, lesser working conditions and things of that nature. Obviously, it didn’t bode well for us, because the companies still continue to go wherever the tax credits are, and that makes sense from a business standpoint, and we understand that. So it has been a fight that the Teamsters have had forever and have been a part of and have been instrumental in getting the current film and television tax credit that we have now, that was just last year implemented and put into budget for the state of California.

So this is an ongoing conversation we have all the time, but most definitely that we have to be extremely aggressive about it as Californians, because we’re seeing these other tax credits be drastically improved, to the point where we’re not being competitive enough. So we’re talking to these politicians, we have been for the last year. But that is our fight. Not only do we negotiate with these companies in bargaining, but we’ve been fighting for their tax credits. So it’s a difficult situation to be in as a union, but we understand that this is our members’ jobs on the line, so we have to do everything that we can in our power to make certain that the elected politicians know where we stand on these issues and that they have to do the right thing.

DEADLINE: One other thing I wanted to ask about is about safety of crew. Is this something that you are planning to address at all?

DOUGHERTY: Well, that’s why there are penalties built into our agreement, and that we have negotiated throughout the years, and that’s most certainly something that we’re looking at now, to increase these penalties, because some productions are not going to film excessive hours If it’s going to cost them more money with labor. But we see that some of these companies or productions will continue to film film excessive hours that are way over the top that most productions are not doing, and they don’t even blink at the fact that it’s costing them more money, so obviously they can afford it. So that tells us that we should be asking for more, which is exactly what we’re going to be doing in terms of these penalties. Because, at the end of the day, they’re going to have to pay to play.

One thing I’ll add too, because when a studio or a company has somebody [in demand], like a director or producer, they’ll let them film as long as they want if that person is making them a lot of money. We see it all the time. There are no rules, is what it seems to be, and the studios know that.

DEADLINE: That’s interesting, because you aren’t the first person who has said that to me lately about the more powerful creators in this industry.

DOUGHERTY: These directors that won’t even break for lunch. Like Taylor Sheridan, I’ll say it, won’t break for lunch. I mean, those are the shows that are out of control.

DEADLINE: Is there anything else you feel like you want to touch on regarding your upcoming negotiations?

DOUGHERTY: I would say that the underlying theme of most of our proposals is respect. We’re looking for parity with the other local unions that are throughout the country, like the Teamsters, that have, like I said, improvements that have been made to their agreements throughout time that we haven’t seen in Hollywood. And then there’s other unions and guilds that are obviously treated differently in Hollywood. We just want our members to get their fair share for the work that they do and, really, our proposals are extremely reasonable and extremely realistic, because, again, these are things that the studios and the streamers have already agreed to with many other unions.

DEADLINE: IATSE has already made it clear they won’t extend past the July 31 deadline. Does the same go for the Teamsters?

DOUGHERTY: So there has been a mandate from our general president, Sean O’Brien, that no Teamster contracts in any industry or division can be extended. That mandate has been communicated to the AMPTP. I have told AMPTP we will not be extending their contracts. And additionally, none of the other Teamster locals throughout the country will be extending their agreements, either, because if we don’t have an expiration date, the studios will will continue to drag things on.

One last thing — knowing the chaos that has ensued in our industry since the last year, I have been doing my due diligence to talk to the studios and labor relations executives and some of the CEOs as well, and talk about the issues that our members have and face every day, so that we could try to have a more meaningful conversation in bargaining, because although we are going to aggressively challenge them in this round of bargaining, we still want to maintain a good relationship with them. But, you know, that’s a two way street, so we expect the same from them as well.

Best of Deadline

Sign up for Deadline's Newsletter. For the latest news, follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.

  • Up next
  • Up next
  • Up next
  • Up next

Latest stories